Category Archives for "Managed Services News"

Jun 08

Nutanix Elevate Program Now Open to Service Providers Globally

By | Managed Services News

The new program adds two partnership levels to Nutanix Elevate.

Nutanix just unveiled its new Nutanix Elevate Service Provider Program (NESPP). It further extends its Elevate Partner Program to include service providers globally.

The program allows service-provider partners, including managed and cloud service providers, to build hybrid and multicloud services. The program is now available to providers worldwide.

NESPP adds two partnership levels to Nutanix Elevate: authorized service provider and professional service provider. Authorized service providers include partners new to Nutanix or those delivering Nutanix services to SMBs. Professional service providers will deliver differentiated services for enterprise organizations.

Christian Alvarez is senior vice president of worldwide channels at Nutanix.

Nutanix's Christian Alvarez

Nutanix’s Christian Alvarez

“As the demand for managed and cloud services surges, service providers are uniquely positioned to assist an organization’s growth, optimization initiatives and digital transformation needs,” he said. “Through NESPP, we are rewarding our partners’ commitment in delivering high-value IT cloud service offerings, and helping them maximize profitability and increase their revenue growth potential through premium offerings.”

Program Benefits

NESPP partners who join the program will have access to training, not for resale (NFR) and Nutanix XLAB software licenses, and enablement support.

Nutanix will provide expanded support to professional service provider partners. That includes marketing materials, potential market development funds, sales tools, goal-based financial incentives and rebates, and personalized insights in Nutanix’s partner portal.

Key NESPP advantages include:

  • Improved bottom line, with simplified pricing options, no minimum commitment levels or mandatory product purchases. In addition, lower management overhead with Nutanix.
  • Increased top line and faster time-to-market, with over 80% faster deployment. Nutanix service providers can also onboard and rapidly scale new services.
  • Simplicity. Service providers can deliver IT services, at any size, with one-click deployment, upgrades, scaling, self-healing capabilities, troubleshooting and more.

Nutanix is running a service provider starter pack promotional offer for new partners joining NESPP. This promotional offer includes training, certification and Nutanix software to help partners bring their services to production and start generating revenue.

Jun 08

AT&T to Offer Up to 1 Million Customers Cisco Webex Calling

By | Managed Services News

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Cisco and AT&T have teamed up to offer as many as 1 million AT&T business customers Cisco Webex Calling.

AT&T Business is offering Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise to Cisco’s Unified Communications Manager – Cloud (UCMC). That will help businesses optimize operations and accelerate digital transformation in nearly any environment.

UCMC will enhance reliability and performance for all Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise users, the companies said. AT&T and Cisco expect to offer up to 1 million users the UCMC platform over the next five years.

New Hybrid Workplace

Javed Khan is senior vice president and general manager of Cisco Collaboration.

Cisco's Javed Khan

Cisco’s Javed Khan

“The shift to hybrid work changed how companies operate and accelerated adoption of integrated cloud collaboration solutions,” he said. “Our Webex solutions transformed the cloud calling experience and combine enterprise-calling features with market-leading virtual meetings and collaboration technology — all within the Webex app. And we’re proud to work with AT&T to provide its customers and employees with the tools and technologies they require to thrive in the new hybrid workplace.”

AT&T has a longstanding relationship of delivering voice services on Cisco’s platforms since 1997.

Recently, AT&T achieved Cisco’s UC Master Collaboration Specialization. That’s the highest level a third party can achieve. It also renewed its Gold Partner Certification. That’s the highest level of certification for Cisco partners.

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Rich Shaw is vice president of voice and collaboration for AT&T Business.

“Today’s environment requires tools that enable flexible and adaptable business operations,” he said. “Our work with Cisco is a great example of how we’re able to innovate faster, accelerate the deployment of cutting-edge technologies and unlock the full potential of our workforce and customers.”

Jun 08

AT&T to Offer Up to 1 Million Customers Cisco Webex Calling

By | Managed Services News

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Cisco and AT&T have teamed up to offer as many as 1 million AT&T business customers Cisco Webex Calling.

AT&T Business is offering Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise to Cisco’s Unified Communications Manager – Cloud (UCMC). That will help businesses optimize operations and accelerate digital transformation in nearly any environment.

UCMC will enhance reliability and performance for all Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise users, the companies said. AT&T and Cisco expect to offer up to 1 million users the UCMC platform over the next five years.

New Hybrid Workplace

Javed Khan is senior vice president and general manager of Cisco Collaboration.

Cisco's Javed Khan

Cisco’s Javed Khan

“The shift to hybrid work changed how companies operate and accelerated adoption of integrated cloud collaboration solutions,” he said. “Our Webex solutions transformed the cloud calling experience and combine enterprise-calling features with market-leading virtual meetings and collaboration technology — all within the Webex app. And we’re proud to work with AT&T to provide its customers and employees with the tools and technologies they require to thrive in the new hybrid workplace.”

AT&T has a longstanding relationship of delivering voice services on Cisco’s platforms since 1997.

Recently, AT&T achieved Cisco’s UC Master Collaboration Specialization. That’s the highest level a third party can achieve. It also renewed its Gold Partner Certification. That’s the highest level of certification for Cisco partners.

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Rich Shaw is vice president of voice and collaboration for AT&T Business.

“Today’s environment requires tools that enable flexible and adaptable business operations,” he said. “Our work with Cisco is a great example of how we’re able to innovate faster, accelerate the deployment of cutting-edge technologies and unlock the full potential of our workforce and customers.”

Jun 08

The CF List: 20 Endpoint Detection and Response (EDR) Providers You Should Know

By | Managed Services News

EDR vendors have begun their evolution into extended detection and response (XDR).

The COVID-19 pandemic and subsequent shift to remote work accelerated demand for endpoint detection and response (EDR) solutions.

Our latest CF List focuses on EDR and the transition to extended detection and response (XDR). Analysts with Omdia, S&P Global Market Intelligence, Forrester and Frost & Sullivan weighed in on EDR market trends and what it takes to be a successful EDR provider.

Allie Mellen is analyst of security and risk at Forrester.

Forrester's Allie Mellen

Forrester’s Allie Mellen

“The pandemic has highlighted how important it is to build resilience into our systems and processes,” she said. “When the pandemic started, security teams had to quickly pivot to support remote work.”

Additionally, throughout the past year, security teams had to prepare for the inevitable return to the office, Mellen said.

“Ultimately … security teams are looking for a tool that can be dynamic with them, especially when handling such large and changing amounts of data,” she said.

Pandemic Accelerated Changes

Fernando Montenegro is principal analyst of information security at S&P Global.

S&P Global's Fernando Montenegro

S&P Global’s Fernando Montenegro

“The requirements have been evolving,” he said. “But the pandemic accelerated changes that have been in play for a few years now. For example, it’s now commonplace to have at least the option of using a cloud-based back end. And broad support for multiple platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, mobile) is expected as well.”

Eric Parizo is principal analyst of Omdia’s cybersecurity operations intelligence service. (Like Channel Futures, Omdia’s parent company is Informa.)

Omdia's Eric Parizo

Omdia’s Eric Parizo

“There’s no question endpoint defense requirements have evolved to the point where the ability to detect and respond to threats on remote endpoints, endpoints with trusted user access, is just as important as for endpoints directly connected to the corporate network,” he said.

Tony Massimini is senior industry analyst of information and network security at Frost & Sullivan.

Frost & Sullivan's Tony Massimini

Frost & Sullivan’s Tony Massimini

A major development in the last few years is that EDR has quickly become integrated into endpoint protection platform (EPP),” he said. “EDR, an enhanced threat hunting tool, was a standalone, high-end niche solution that was previously tracked separately by Frost & Sullivan. Endpoint security vendors have integrated various EDR functions across a spectrum of EPP offerings.”

XDR Evolution

Mellen said EDR vendors have begun their evolution to XDR. Companies have initiated acquisitions explicitly meant to help them on this new strategy.

“Two examples that come to mind are CrowdStrike and their acquisition of Humio, a log management solution, and SentinelOne and their acquisition of Scalyr, a data analytics platform,” she said.

EDR vendors across the board have shifted towards the XDR market, Mellen said.

In addition, some younger players claim to deliver on XDR outcomes, she said. But they haven’t yet revealed these capabilities.

Parizo said recent M&A activity shows the future isn’t EDR, but rather XDR.

“While XDR solutions don’t necessarily have to be based on EDR, the EDR vendors recognize that customers don’t want separate detection and response solutions for endpoints, networks and the cloud,” he said.

Vendors should integrate these solutions, Parizo said. That’s because threat actors will traverse back and forth across different platforms during the course of a single attack.

In addition to SentinalOne and Crowdstrike, Parizo cites Fidelis Cybersecurity’s acquisition of CloudPassage as an example of the evolution to XDR.

“Standalone EDR solutions are already on borrowed time,” he said.

We’ve compiled a list, in alphabetical order, of 20 top EDR providers based on analysts’ feedback and recent news reports. The list includes a mix of well-known providers as well as lesser-known ones making strikes in endpoint security.

Scroll through our slideshow above to see who made the list.

Jun 08

Why All MSPs Need to Understand the M&A Landscape

By | Managed Services News

Even if you’re not making an M&A move, your competitors are.

Why must all MSPs understand the industry’s M&A landscape, even if they are not actively seeking a deal? Because even if you’re standing pat, your competitors aren’t. Plus, if someone suddenly makes you an offer, you’ll want to know whether it really is too good to refuse.

During a recent webinar with MSP veteran Gary Pica of TruMethods, now a Kaseya company, we dove into how things look today on the M&A front and where they’re heading tomorrow. The M&A topic is more crucial than ever because the market is really heating up due to a few key factors.

The target market for MSPs is small and midsize businesses, and SMBs are continuing to increase their technology spending–even during the current economic downturn and recovery. SMBs will continue spending a larger percentage of their revenue each year as they revolutionize their systems.

This M&A spending is attracting attention, which means more money flowing into the space. Private equity firms are taking over software companies and the MSP channel, following the money that indicates growing opportunity.

At the same time, running and growing an MSP has become much more complex as customers demand an increasingly broader set of solutions. Providing a holistic, customizable offering requires investments in tools, technology and training, along with hiring staff with the right skills in a tight labor market.

Last, but certainly not least, MSPs and their clients are under near-constant attack. The quantity and quality of cybersecurity threats are increasing and evolving, spurred by higher-quality bad actors backed by deep pockets and foreign governments. Because 70% of security is hygiene, process, compliance and governance, MSPs are faced with the choice of growing and maturing their operations themselves, merging or partnering with a third party to get their security stance up to par, or doing nothing and take their chances.

It’s Still Early Days

Despite what may feel like a flurry of M&A activity in the MSP industry, it is only the beginning. Billions of dollars are still waiting on the sidelines. Meanwhile, M&A is top of mind for many MSPs.

According to our 2021 MSP Benchmark Survey, 26% of MSPs are looking to make an acquisition in the next two to three years, while 8% are hoping to sell during that same time frame. Not only does that indicate a future surge in activity, but it also means some MSPs not currently contemplating an exit might start receiving some unsolicited inquiries in the not-to-distant future.

These events are changing the nature of competition in the MSP market, even for those that aren’t active in the M&A arena. Private equity rollups are forming massive players along with an increase in MSPs with more than $4 million in revenue. These larger entities have proper sales and marketing organizations (often utilizing Kaseya’s Powered Services) interacting with your customers, educating them and arming them with tougher questions for you. Throw in the increasing complexities and importance of cybersecurity, and it’s obvious that scale is now a major competitive advantage.

 Who’s Shopping and What Are They Offering?

There are a few main types of buyers in the MSP market. Private equity-backed rollups are targeting MSPs with at least $1 million in annual EBIDTA along with smaller tuck-in businesses for strategic purposes. Meanwhile, “super-regional” MSPs with more than $8 million in EBIDTA are looking to accelerate their growth by buying up smaller players in their market.

Then there are strategic buyers that aren’t currently in the MSP business but are looking to add those services to their portfolio. These are typically office technology and services business, such as photocopier companies and accounting firms that already have a footprint with lots of SMBs.

Of course, the million-dollar question is how much are these companies willing to pay to snap up MSPs that fit their target criteria. Unsurprisingly, the more an MSP makes, the more they’re worth, and private equity firms are willing to pay a premium for larger outfits since they can serve as a platform for additional acquisitions.

There really isn’t a universal formula to calculate these valuations, but in general it’s a multiple of

Jun 08

AT&T to Offer Up to 1 Million Customers Cisco Webex Calling

By | Managed Services News

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Cisco and AT&T have teamed up to offer as many as 1 million AT&T business customers Cisco Webex Calling.

AT&T Business is offering Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise to Cisco’s Unified Communications Manager – Cloud (UCMC). That will help businesses optimize operations and accelerate digital transformation in nearly any environment.

UCMC will enhance reliability and performance for all Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise users, the companies said. AT&T and Cisco expect to offer up to 1 million users the UCMC platform over the next five years.

New Hybrid Workplace

Javed Khan is senior vice president and general manager of Cisco Collaboration.

Cisco's Javed Khan

Cisco’s Javed Khan

“The shift to hybrid work changed how companies operate and accelerated adoption of integrated cloud collaboration solutions,” he said. “Our Webex solutions transformed the cloud calling experience and combine enterprise-calling features with market-leading virtual meetings and collaboration technology — all within the Webex app. And we’re proud to work with AT&T to provide its customers and employees with the tools and technologies they require to thrive in the new hybrid workplace.”

AT&T has a longstanding relationship of delivering voice services on Cisco’s platforms since 1997.

Recently, AT&T achieved Cisco’s UC Master Collaboration Specialization. That’s the highest level a third party can achieve. It also renewed its Gold Partner Certification. That’s the highest level of certification for Cisco partners.

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Rich Shaw is vice president of voice and collaboration for AT&T Business.

“Today’s environment requires tools that enable flexible and adaptable business operations,” he said. “Our work with Cisco is a great example of how we’re able to innovate faster, accelerate the deployment of cutting-edge technologies and unlock the full potential of our workforce and customers.”

Jun 08

Why All MSPs Need to Understand the M&A Landscape

By | Managed Services News

Even if you’re not making an M&A move, your competitors are.

Why must all MSPs understand the industry’s M&A landscape, even if they are not actively seeking a deal? Because even if you’re standing pat, your competitors aren’t. Plus, if someone suddenly makes you an offer, you’ll want to know whether it really is too good to refuse.

During a recent webinar with MSP veteran Gary Pica of TruMethods, now a Kaseya company, we dove into how things look today on the M&A front and where they’re heading tomorrow. The M&A topic is more crucial than ever because the market is really heating up due to a few key factors.

The target market for MSPs is small and midsize businesses, and SMBs are continuing to increase their technology spending–even during the current economic downturn and recovery. SMBs will continue spending a larger percentage of their revenue each year as they revolutionize their systems.

This M&A spending is attracting attention, which means more money flowing into the space. Private equity firms are taking over software companies and the MSP channel, following the money that indicates growing opportunity.

At the same time, running and growing an MSP has become much more complex as customers demand an increasingly broader set of solutions. Providing a holistic, customizable offering requires investments in tools, technology and training, along with hiring staff with the right skills in a tight labor market.

Last, but certainly not least, MSPs and their clients are under near-constant attack. The quantity and quality of cybersecurity threats are increasing and evolving, spurred by higher-quality bad actors backed by deep pockets and foreign governments. Because 70% of security is hygiene, process, compliance and governance, MSPs are faced with the choice of growing and maturing their operations themselves, merging or partnering with a third party to get their security stance up to par, or doing nothing and take their chances.

It’s Still Early Days

Despite what may feel like a flurry of M&A activity in the MSP industry, it is only the beginning. Billions of dollars are still waiting on the sidelines. Meanwhile, M&A is top of mind for many MSPs.

According to our 2021 MSP Benchmark Survey, 26% of MSPs are looking to make an acquisition in the next two to three years, while 8% are hoping to sell during that same time frame. Not only does that indicate a future surge in activity, but it also means some MSPs not currently contemplating an exit might start receiving some unsolicited inquiries in the not-to-distant future.

These events are changing the nature of competition in the MSP market, even for those that aren’t active in the M&A arena. Private equity rollups are forming massive players along with an increase in MSPs with more than $4 million in revenue. These larger entities have proper sales and marketing organizations (often utilizing Kaseya’s Powered Services) interacting with your customers, educating them and arming them with tougher questions for you. Throw in the increasing complexities and importance of cybersecurity, and it’s obvious that scale is now a major competitive advantage.

 Who’s Shopping and What Are They Offering?

There are a few main types of buyers in the MSP market. Private equity-backed rollups are targeting MSPs with at least $1 million in annual EBIDTA along with smaller tuck-in businesses for strategic purposes. Meanwhile, “super-regional” MSPs with more than $8 million in EBIDTA are looking to accelerate their growth by buying up smaller players in their market.

Then there are strategic buyers that aren’t currently in the MSP business but are looking to add those services to their portfolio. These are typically office technology and services business, such as photocopier companies and accounting firms that already have a footprint with lots of SMBs.

Of course, the million-dollar question is how much are these companies willing to pay to snap up MSPs that fit their target criteria. Unsurprisingly, the more an MSP makes, the more they’re worth, and private equity firms are willing to pay a premium for larger outfits since they can serve as a platform for additional acquisitions.

There really isn’t a universal formula to calculate these valuations, but in general it’s a multiple of

Jun 08

AT&T to Offer Up to 1 Million Customers Cisco Webex Calling

By | Managed Services News

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Cisco and AT&T have teamed up to offer as many as 1 million AT&T business customers Cisco Webex Calling.

AT&T Business is offering Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise to Cisco’s Unified Communications Manager – Cloud (UCMC). That will help businesses optimize operations and accelerate digital transformation in nearly any environment.

UCMC will enhance reliability and performance for all Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise users, the companies said. AT&T and Cisco expect to offer up to 1 million users the UCMC platform over the next five years.

New Hybrid Workplace

Javed Khan is senior vice president and general manager of Cisco Collaboration.

Cisco's Javed Khan

Cisco’s Javed Khan

“The shift to hybrid work changed how companies operate and accelerated adoption of integrated cloud collaboration solutions,” he said. “Our Webex solutions transformed the cloud calling experience and combine enterprise-calling features with market-leading virtual meetings and collaboration technology — all within the Webex app. And we’re proud to work with AT&T to provide its customers and employees with the tools and technologies they require to thrive in the new hybrid workplace.”

AT&T has a longstanding relationship of delivering voice services on Cisco’s platforms since 1997.

Recently, AT&T achieved Cisco’s UC Master Collaboration Specialization. That’s the highest level a third party can achieve. It also renewed its Gold Partner Certification. That’s the highest level of certification for Cisco partners.

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Rich Shaw is vice president of voice and collaboration for AT&T Business.

“Today’s environment requires tools that enable flexible and adaptable business operations,” he said. “Our work with Cisco is a great example of how we’re able to innovate faster, accelerate the deployment of cutting-edge technologies and unlock the full potential of our workforce and customers.”

Jun 08

Why All MSPs Need to Understand the M&A Landscape

By | Managed Services News

Even if you’re not making an M&A move, your competitors are.

Why must all MSPs understand the industry’s M&A landscape, even if they are not actively seeking a deal? Because even if you’re standing pat, your competitors aren’t. Plus, if someone suddenly makes you an offer, you’ll want to know whether it really is too good to refuse.

During a recent webinar with MSP veteran Gary Pica of TruMethods, now a Kaseya company, we dove into how things look today on the M&A front and where they’re heading tomorrow. The M&A topic is more crucial than ever because the market is really heating up due to a few key factors.

The target market for MSPs is small and midsize businesses, and SMBs are continuing to increase their technology spending–even during the current economic downturn and recovery. SMBs will continue spending a larger percentage of their revenue each year as they revolutionize their systems.

This M&A spending is attracting attention, which means more money flowing into the space. Private equity firms are taking over software companies and the MSP channel, following the money that indicates growing opportunity.

At the same time, running and growing an MSP has become much more complex as customers demand an increasingly broader set of solutions. Providing a holistic, customizable offering requires investments in tools, technology and training, along with hiring staff with the right skills in a tight labor market.

Last, but certainly not least, MSPs and their clients are under near-constant attack. The quantity and quality of cybersecurity threats are increasing and evolving, spurred by higher-quality bad actors backed by deep pockets and foreign governments. Because 70% of security is hygiene, process, compliance and governance, MSPs are faced with the choice of growing and maturing their operations themselves, merging or partnering with a third party to get their security stance up to par, or doing nothing and take their chances.

It’s Still Early Days

Despite what may feel like a flurry of M&A activity in the MSP industry, it is only the beginning. Billions of dollars are still waiting on the sidelines. Meanwhile, M&A is top of mind for many MSPs.

According to our 2021 MSP Benchmark Survey, 26% of MSPs are looking to make an acquisition in the next two to three years, while 8% are hoping to sell during that same time frame. Not only does that indicate a future surge in activity, but it also means some MSPs not currently contemplating an exit might start receiving some unsolicited inquiries in the not-to-distant future.

These events are changing the nature of competition in the MSP market, even for those that aren’t active in the M&A arena. Private equity rollups are forming massive players along with an increase in MSPs with more than $4 million in revenue. These larger entities have proper sales and marketing organizations (often utilizing Kaseya’s Powered Services) interacting with your customers, educating them and arming them with tougher questions for you. Throw in the increasing complexities and importance of cybersecurity, and it’s obvious that scale is now a major competitive advantage.

 Who’s Shopping and What Are They Offering?

There are a few main types of buyers in the MSP market. Private equity-backed rollups are targeting MSPs with at least $1 million in annual EBIDTA along with smaller tuck-in businesses for strategic purposes. Meanwhile, “super-regional” MSPs with more than $8 million in EBIDTA are looking to accelerate their growth by buying up smaller players in their market.

Then there are strategic buyers that aren’t currently in the MSP business but are looking to add those services to their portfolio. These are typically office technology and services business, such as photocopier companies and accounting firms that already have a footprint with lots of SMBs.

Of course, the million-dollar question is how much are these companies willing to pay to snap up MSPs that fit their target criteria. Unsurprisingly, the more an MSP makes, the more they’re worth, and private equity firms are willing to pay a premium for larger outfits since they can serve as a platform for additional acquisitions.

There really isn’t a universal formula to calculate these valuations, but in general it’s a multiple of

Jun 08

AT&T to Offer Up to 1 Million Customers Cisco Webex Calling

By | Managed Services News

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Cisco and AT&T have teamed up to offer as many as 1 million AT&T business customers Cisco Webex Calling.

AT&T Business is offering Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise to Cisco’s Unified Communications Manager – Cloud (UCMC). That will help businesses optimize operations and accelerate digital transformation in nearly any environment.

UCMC will enhance reliability and performance for all Webex Calling with AT&T – Enterprise users, the companies said. AT&T and Cisco expect to offer up to 1 million users the UCMC platform over the next five years.

New Hybrid Workplace

Javed Khan is senior vice president and general manager of Cisco Collaboration.

Cisco's Javed Khan

Cisco’s Javed Khan

“The shift to hybrid work changed how companies operate and accelerated adoption of integrated cloud collaboration solutions,” he said. “Our Webex solutions transformed the cloud calling experience and combine enterprise-calling features with market-leading virtual meetings and collaboration technology — all within the Webex app. And we’re proud to work with AT&T to provide its customers and employees with the tools and technologies they require to thrive in the new hybrid workplace.”

AT&T has a longstanding relationship of delivering voice services on Cisco’s platforms since 1997.

Recently, AT&T achieved Cisco’s UC Master Collaboration Specialization. That’s the highest level a third party can achieve. It also renewed its Gold Partner Certification. That’s the highest level of certification for Cisco partners.

AT&T Business serves nearly 2,000 of the largest multinational companies.

Rich Shaw is vice president of voice and collaboration for AT&T Business.

“Today’s environment requires tools that enable flexible and adaptable business operations,” he said. “Our work with Cisco is a great example of how we’re able to innovate faster, accelerate the deployment of cutting-edge technologies and unlock the full potential of our workforce and customers.”

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